Coffee Talk » Spirituality - Absolutes and Relativism a blog with John Paul Jackson

Mar 15

Spirituality - Absolutes and Relativism

When I wrote that God would release “moral champions, who refute cultural moral relativism, and call sin – sin,” I did not mean that these champions would practice “old time religion” and hammer others with their beliefs. Nor would they speak from “self imposed religious loftiness.” Instead I was following the train of thought established earlier in the blog that refuted condemnation and spoke of loving those who do not know True, Pure Spirituality – or its beginning form often called salvation (see Romans 5:10).

We need not demand others to be perfect, but we do need to follow the one who lived a perfect life. We are to follow the one who was friends with sinners and yet did not compromise His belief structure. The one who clearly believed in absolutes and did not see absolutes as merely opinions formed by the belief set of the religious community (denomination) one was raised in. If He did, Jesus would not have called the leaders of the day, “white-washed sepulchers.” He would have instead tried to understand they had a right to their view and he had a right to His. Oh hog wash!

Jesus had a clear set of absolutes, and those absolutes were foundational to the building of the Kingdom. Yet, He without partiality applied them to broken people without condemnation. He called sin – sin in a way that attracted the broken rather than repelling them. Jesus did not hammer those who did not know Him - He loved them. He did not condemn, He convicted. He did not think in terms of situational ethics, but in terms of heavenly mandates.

To Jesus sin was not relative to the moment, it was absolute and it was destroying that which God had created.

I believe the Postmodern church has compromised Christian belief structures and lost track of Kingdom absolutes. In doing so, there is the danger of adopting the view of God as having no absolutes. Which is then followed by the belief there is no God, because there are no absolutes. Or if there is a God he is merely a “higher life form” to which we can attain.

Moral relativism says there is nothing wrong with homosexuality – it is relative to the individual. Then, I ask, how about incest – is it wrong or is it relative to the individual as well? What about murder – is it also relative to the individual? The list could go on and on. Society and the world will collapse without the absolutes of the Kingdom.

I do believe that if we lived a life that demonstrated the love and the power of the Kingdom, we would not have to trumpet against sin. We would also not back down when confronted with statements that were unbiblical or anti-Christ either. We would explain the truth of Jesus whom we follow and do that with deep felt love.

Is there anyone who is righteous enough to become a moral champion? The apostles were, leaders of the early church were. Moral champions are not perfect, they simply follow Him who is perfect. They admit their failures and live a humble and transparent life. Are they rare today? – yes, they are almost nonexistent, but that does not mean that God cannot mature them and raise them up. True, Pure, Morality is the fruit of True, Pure, Spirituality.

If no one lives a True, Pure, Spiritual life, who will be a witness to God’s existence? Our life should be that. Jesus said we are to be witnesses when the power of the Holy Spirit comes upon us. So how then do we do that?

Moral relativism causes there to be little or no distinction between those who know the One, True, God and those who do not. No wonder the world sees the church as irrelevant.
Blessings,
John Paul

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54 Comments so far

David In Louisiana March 15th, 2008 6:39 pm

I thought that you would clarify what you meant about “Moral Champions”. :o)

The way it was phrased in the previous post was like a double edged sword. Even though one side said to my heart, “Being like Jesus, Daniel, John the Baptizer, etc”. The other side of the sword reminded me of what the pharisees represented. White paint on the outside, Dead and rotting on the inside.

For another topic JP. Would you discuss the laying on of hands/impartation revelation you have?

Jesus felt virtue flow. I understand this is something we can feel praying for others. How do we “Open the faucet” and how do we help prepare others to receive?

You mention how the fruits have substance that can be imparted. I understand it is directed by Holy Spirit. Has He shown you any exercises one can do that will help activate this in a greater way? (That you can share?)
Perhaps something like the activations you have in the courses?

Does Holy Spirit wait until we are not in danger of having a heart like Simon? Acts 8.19

God bless
David
Will March 15th, 2008 7:49 pm

Thank you For clarifying this. I guess the term “morality” threw me for a loop. I gave a message to my Bible college in 1999 on Morality versus Holiness because morality is not talked about in the bible very much, in the context of modern morality. Holiness however is talked about throughout the scriptures. (for all you theologians out there do a word search on morality, moral, and other tenses of the word in your concordance, you maybe surprised)

I guess I would have to agree with you that God does have absolutes, but when you speak of Situational Ethics I guess you are refering to the whole philsophy of Mr SKinner who wrote books on that sort of thing (I beleive it was skinner….)

The whole post modern church to me is a confusing thing, I hear alot of people talking about it, but I have never meet anyone who fits the bill of the ‘post-modern’ church. Its sort of like seeker sensative churches which are not for seekers at all! Seeker sensative usually ends up being ‘feel good’ sensative instead of truth and light and life.

The one push I liked during the prophetic/renewal wave of the 90s was for ‘presence’ in the churches. Without Gods presence we have nothing. Somehow I think alot of those proponents of Gods presence doing the work have lost their way, but I think that those truths stand for all time.

Most in the homosexual community have not been taught spiritual revelation, and so they don’t understand the spiritual paradigms that may be present in their sensative state that would help them live a life fully in connection to God.

I have shared Jesus with glbt people and I have to say they are the most open and receptive community of people i have ever seen! You see, the problem is, that few people understand the dynamics of spirit-attraction. If someone is attracted to someone in our culture, we automatically turn that into sexual energy, but that isn’t necessarily true. I could be attracted or drawn into the God-presence in someones life, but if I didn’t know any better then I would think i was attracted to the person.

I learned this lesson when one day I was in a store and i felt this intense pull to the sales associate. As the scriptures say, i fled evil, running out the door and driving straight home. I layed on the floor and cried out to dad, and I Said where on EARTH is this garbage coming from God!! Do i have an open door? God said ‘No, you are experiencing a deeper revelation of what happens in the spirit and soul. That attraction you felt was that mans soul to what he felt of me inside of you, but you thought that the experience was you and that it was evil. It was actually a form of spiritual knowledge. I want to show you more of this, do not be afraid but do exactly what you did today, come before me and I will show you what is happening’

After this sort of revelation, when I shared the personal revelation with others, in various lifestyles, people would just be so undone. It was as if someone finally could explain to them what was happening, that all this time, they were just ultra-sensative to another dimension that many in our culture deny exists.

Do you know how healing it is to broken people when they realize they are spiritual all this time from the start, that God is loving and merciful and has been trying to get their attention for years!??

I guess in different regions there is different strongholds. “Moral relativism” is not as active as a philsophy in where I live, so I don’t see that as an issue, people have strong views, and while they may disagree with another, they still hold their views, it doesn’t get into a mushy 70s/80s philosphy.

I dont beleive abortion or homosexuality are serious issues in america today because I beleive that those are RESULTS of other effects. They are not the root, they are just the manifestation of a deeper issue. If we could just see that when we bring healing to the deep root, then everything else disappears. The roots of these issues are the serious issues of our culture, and the roots are what I think the church should address.

When the group of people show holy affection and love, something that everyone desires and was created to experience, others don’t have to go to degenerative places to get the love they need and don’t know how to find. Most people in our culture have a twisted view of sexuality and sensuality. If two men greet each other with a kiss (which is a biblical mandate if you read the word) automatically people think they are gay. I have a network of beleivers who deeply love each other. When my guy and gal friends started greeting each other with a holy kiss and hug that was NOT sexual in anyway, the church that we were going to had a huge issue. People flaked out on us, and thought we were some sort of sexual orgy happening…

but that is a whole other issue, and that is why ‘moral champions’ scared me to hear from you. Because the church is so afraid of even love and affection, that they try to silence the compassion the Lord is raising up.

The deep issues of others and their lack of love is always seen when one of my brothers hugs and kisses me on the cheek in church, you can just see the religious and conservative demons freak out in the eyes of others..

but I say, to all Gods Glory.. may the Love of his people radiate and show the world what true pure love of Spirit can bring.

thanks for clarifying
Antonio March 15th, 2008 9:00 pm

You know, I just learnt a valuable lesson this week…

I’ve been having serious toothache for the last two or three months and I’ve been praying and taking a lot of medication too. I went to the dentist twice to get my teeth fixed, but the anestesia wouldn’t work, until eventually the guy gave up on me…

I finally decided to go to the hospital just in case I needed general anestisia (total knockout). When the hospital dentist came along, she said that that would not be necessary. She just told me to sit in the chair and she would take care of it.

Then, with much determination she plunged a long needle straight into my toothes nerve (the tooth had an enourmous hole). The nerve was infected, seriously infected. I jumped! I curled up in the chair holding my jaw. I cried! I just thought of running away, getting up and walking off. She kept insisting that I let her do her job, and that that was the reason I was there for, otherwise, why would I have gone there.

Slowly I sat in place again in the chair, holding on hard, to the chair and to my stomach. She plunged the needle again, and again I jumped…I eventually came to place again and she did it once more but this time it wasn’t as sore…

As soon as she saw that there was no more pain, she started a “heavy duty” job on my tooth. At times, she was really “hammering” things into my mouth that I didn’t see because my eyes were shut (she had some “nasty” tools)…At times she inflicted some pain, but when she was finished, I felt so releived. I haven’t felt like that in months!

The thing I wanted to point out is that all the time, she was conforting me with such soft and assuring words…even when she inflicted pain, she always said it’s alright, it’s ok. Ok, it’s done, it’s over - and she just kept doing her job…she was so sweet, and she had the courage to do what my last dentist couldn’t do. (He eventually told me to go elsewhere…and I did)

At the end I thanked her so much, I just wanted to kiss and hug her, but she was too professional for that…she walked away before I could get to her…

I learnt that day that true love and dedication goes all the way (in various aspects) even in the toughest jobs…And that is one lesson I am going to carry all my life. Sometimes I still jump at the thought of the pain that I felt that day, but the comfort given by that lady, and the releif of the months of pain are far superior to all the rest!

Why am I saying this - because I know that love makes the difference even with the toughest “theologies”. True, Pure, Spiritual, Love will always make the right decisions, which will ultimately produce moral champions, not by the individuals power or might, but naturally, by the Spirit…

If we stick in there, I beleive we can make it,
to wherever God…wants to take it! (and take us!)

God Bless!
will March 15th, 2008 9:29 pm

Sorry on my last post i meant Joseph Fletcher, not B F Skinner
Joe Leone March 16th, 2008 2:00 am

This is kinda a responce to say thanks for not posting that last comment I made but sorta a follow up on it and this last post you wrote.

So when it comes down to it. We will never be perfect. Till we are there with Him. I remember asking once, God please perfect me. Get me as close to perfection as possible.

DUMB!

Like now I can honestly say I’ll wanna leave perfection to Jesus. I almost would also feel like saying…I want to be free of perfection and free of being a moral champion. Not because I don’t wanna stop sinning but because it seems that in the face of pursuing righteousness I am only accomplishing the demise of my myself. I am not only hit in the face with the disgrace of seeing everything I am doing thats evil(alot), but also am followed up with diabolically evil new sins.

So is there a point when you actually see a turning point? A point in this life where you see the victories?
I have had so few victories and I feel like I won’t see anything He has done to accomplish His work in me till I am dead.

It’s like I know that We win in the end, but in the mean time everything I do is counterattacked and the demonic never let up. In midst of worship, prayer, fellowship, dreaming, and everything else you can think of. I know your not here to tell me everything and I’m pretty sure alot of this is venting but venting or not and whether you could help or not this is legitimate stuff. It’s not just depression ramblings.

I am just curious if when you make it as far as you did John Paul, does the sin I am dealing with now only get harder and counter attacked more? Or did you actually find a way to stop it. A way to kill it. Like not just wound it to tick it off so it comes back harder? I mean When I first saw you at 12 I was going through the same stuff I am now. half my life given in to this.
Marilyn March 16th, 2008 8:58 am

John Paul,

Referring to, “Yet, He without partiality applied them to broken people without condemnation. He called sin – sin in a way that attracted the broken rather than repelling them. Jesus did not hammer those who did not know Him - He loved them.”

What does does this look like? How do we call sin - sin in a way that attracts the broken?

Thanks for all you do.

M.
Randy March 16th, 2008 9:07 am

“They will know we are Christians
by our Love
by our Love
They will know we are Christians
by our Love.”

“By this will all men know that your are my diciples, that you
love one another.”

John Paul, there is a underlying stream in this blog that I think is expressed in the above verse of song and the statement Jesus made.

It seems that you are thru this blog “speaking to the dry bones”.
I think that in a very real way you are “pastoring” the ones that are reading this blog. I hear a heart cry in many of the posts saying I am tired of arms length religion where church means looking at the back of a persons head for an hour. We as a people are hungry, even starving for the love Jesus spoke about and a true spritual life. Starving people will eat about anything as history so clearly points out. Christians are no different. If we aren’t offered spiritual food from those who are leading us we will find something to eat. Ophra is just feeding hungry people.
God Bless,
Randy
Robert March 16th, 2008 10:09 am

Joe: I think you need to be ready for John Paul to not respond to your plea for help. It seems as though he has a script for how he wants this to flow. A good script indeed JP, but it is as if you have hired Will to be your right hand man. No insult intended to either of you, really! Joe, choose you this day!!!! forget past failures, grab hold and soar. as you crash into walls it hurts but man, the thrill of flight gets ya right back in there… when you slam into the tops of the trees you are bound to wipe out some “bad fruit”. I know you may not read my posts but I enjoyed writing it for you anyway,
in love Robert
Kate March 16th, 2008 12:31 pm

I am not very good at English, but I want to say that your topic explain very directly what’s going on. Personally I believe that God call me to be such person and one way to reach it is following Jesus - every hour, every day in everything and let Him change me and my life completely. Being “moral champion” means also to be ready to pay the price - like John The Baptist. Relativism comes from evil - he always says 0 when it’s need to be said 1 and 1 when it’s need to be said 0. Relativism is unlogical, and proclaim - “Neither sin exist, nor one truth”. Jesus said something different …
Sarah in Oregon March 16th, 2008 12:36 pm

Hi John Paul,

Isn’t is amazing how we are all being challenged with these issues? It is so exciting to see everyone giving deep thought and engaging the Father on how we are to live in these days. It is good to know that other people are in the same boat.
Jeff Finkelstein March 16th, 2008 12:39 pm

The Bible doesn’t have a concept of perfection for God and for us. I feel that as we started to build buildings, tame animals and crops, we tried to perfect the world around us. We built flood walls to keep back water in a city like New Orleans. However, nature isn’t perfect, and if you look at the Bible, God doesn’t try to be perfect either.

God wiped out all of the people on the earth (except for Noah) as a way to get rid of evil. But God realized this was a mistake.

There is a new book that explores these themes by Rabbi Jamie Korngold. The book is God in the Wilderness: Rediscovering the Spirituality of the Great
Outdoors with the Adventure Rabbi (Doubleday; 978-0-385-52049-2; $11.95; on sale April 8, 2008).

Now, we are in a struggle to have whiter teeth, thinner waists and greener grass.
Julien March 16th, 2008 1:10 pm

Thank you for this. I came here because your teaching was being discussed on the Crosswalk forum in the “Church” folder. Of course some like you and some don’t. I had never heard of you so I came to take a look.
I like this entry. I have been reading the book, “True Spirituality” by Dr. Francis Schaeffer and this entry is right in line with Schaeffer’s teaching and with what God has been teaching me in the area of going past saving faith into sanctifying faith. I have found myself to have been living in unbelief regarding indwelling sin. I have had besetting sin, as many others do, and have been in unbelief. I have not looked forward to the life of Christ overcoming sin through me, rather I have looked back to my past failure and feared the next time of temptation, praying for deliverance when I just needed to believe and look forward in expectation of the victory of Christ in my life.

Unbelief is the reason we cannot overcome sin. Faith is the answer. Faith that the very life of Jesus, sinless and perfect, is in us and is more than a match for our besetting sin and that He will do it in and through us when the time of temptation comes. If we focus on sin… we will fall but if we believe that He is willing, able, and present to live His life in us, then we will look forward in excited anticipation for the next time of temptation. Expect for Him to do it!!!

I’m not sure why I wrote all of this here, maybe it will help someone. I will read more of your blog.

Julien
Shirley C. March 16th, 2008 3:27 pm

Thank-you for sharing your thoughts and insights, John Paul, its always a Blessing and an eye opener. I hope and pray that one day my husband and I can have these conversations with you in person.

I have been wrestling with the cross lately, especially in the part of the love walk with others which deals with the,” What do you do when a brother or sister that is a leader who doesn’t understand the Kingdom Mandate and how the Lord desires to use His people in fulfilling the Kingdom Mandate that you are speaking of get persecuted in lieux of becoming a moral champion for Christ. There is a biblical prescription of course in turning the cheek and offering the other cheek as well during this persecution.

At the point and in the process of turning the other cheek there is alot of intense pain afflicted upon the human heart, it almost feels like death but it is not. This has often times given me a birds eye view that our Lord went through that same thing on the cross in order to accomplish the task of dying for our sins. I know that the intensity of pain that the Lord had suffered was more than my limited experience of pain that I and other’s have suffered in their life time.

Everyday feels like a death to me in one moment in dealing with others in the Body of Christ and then in the next moment especially when I commit everything to the Cross of Jesus, I experience life, joy, healing , and victory.

I think as believers, we need to study more on the Cross of Jesus and the LOVE that it took for Him to endure the Cross once and for all. So, we do not lose sight when it is happening to us. So, we can be a light to others who want and need a way out of their situations the right way ….the God kind of way. The way that teaches us how to tap into the resurrection power of the Cross which leads to victory. Jesus be our victor!

Blessings & Peace To You Always!
Shirley C.
Marilyn Dylke March 16th, 2008 7:15 pm

I must say I agree. We need more love in the church. Love does conquer all. If we being “Christians” were like Christ, we would have a lot of less problems in this world we live in. I have seen many so called christians where you can’t tell that they are Christians. The problem is that we don’t act any different than the world. I put myself in that catagory as well, although I’m learning and changing. God is supreme. There is no getting away from what we should be doing instead of pointing the finger at those of the “world”. I am learning to love my neighbour, it is difficult when they irratate you so at times, but we must perseveer. It is worth the cost. I have learned more about love in the last 2 years than in the 27 years of being born again. The reason, I was confronted with my own mortality. It makes you sit up and take notice of a lot of things around you. Things are not what they should be in christian circles. We should be helping, loving, one another rather than competing with each other. We desperately need moral champions out there to teach what it truely is to be a follower of Christ. Jesus never competed with anyone over anything. He loved everyone he came into contact with. We need to be helping each other grow and mature in God, and become that which He hath created us to be. Life is difficult, but I could not have come this far without God. It is most disheartening to see what we have become. So much comprimise.
I was away from the church and God for 10 years because I couldn’t see why I should continue going to church. There really was nothing there to keep me going, until I had a health problem that I need God to heal. So I went to a conference and learned that the root cause of my problem was stress, which is sin. I didn’t understand that before, partly I guess because I wasn’t fellowshipping with God’s people or getting spiritual food, in order to understand what God had said on this subject. We are all looking for answers to the moral questions of this earth.
I always thought I was strange and different because of how my thought processes worked, but now I’m beginning to understand that I maybe strange and different, but that is how God wanted me to be. That is how he created me to be. He takes delight in me, as he does in everyone. He made us just the way we are, for a high purpose.
I believe it is imperative for us as the children of God to have a very high moral conscienciousness or who is going to trust God, if his own children reflect the world and are no different than them.
The only reason I have come this far so fast in the last 7 years, is because there are a few moral champions out there to help guide us.
I have really grown the most in the last year because of John Paul’s ministry. I have taken now all the courses he offers here in Vanouver. It has literally saved my life, I understand who I am, and what my destiny is in God. If not for moral champions, what would become of us that are lost for a time.
Many blessing on you John Paul Jackson. Thank you for doing the work God has given you to do.
Sarah March 16th, 2008 7:27 pm

Well, I wasn’t initially going to say anything and simply be this mystery person and no one know anything about me but this is cyberspace and so perhaps not one single person could pick me out in the crowed and say, “oh, so that’s the Sarah!”

I’ll step out with this one and feel the need to offer up possibly some clarification with something that “Will” had said. I need to offer this because it’s coming from a different perspective and perhaps my perspective might be one that others can appreciate.

First: If one were to label me I’d use the term ex-gay.
I formerly identified myself as a lesbian and lived
lived the lifestyle.

Second: I’ve come through a level of healing and freedom which
by the way the common thought in society says
impossible.

Third: Same-sex attraction largely has nothing to do with
“spiritual attraction” as Will had made mention. I
know this from personal experience.

Ok, so if same-sex attraction has nothing to do with spiritual attraction, although I’m not saying that spiritual attraction for some may not be present because that could be a possibility.

The first time I stepped into a lesbian bar I felt that spiritual attraction of sort. I felt, “for the first time I’m among people who are just like me and know what I’ve endured. There is this connection that lesbians will call,,,”sisterhood” it’s because there is no judgment and people are for the most part accepted for who they are with the exception of those who come out of the gay identity and lifestyle. And that can open a whole other can of worms.

The key problem with same-sex attraction is that there is this absence of unhealthy connection with members of the same gender. It’s a need that we all have. We all need to receive affection from members of the same-sex and when there is a void in that area sometimes that might manifest itself homo-erotically.

I can tell you that my mother passed away when I was young. I don’t remember my mother and never had a mother/daughter relationship. My father because a violent alcoholic.

I grew up to think that being a woman was a liability and I never had positive women role-models in my life and so basically I at one time believed that being a woman ment that I was inferior to men and my mind’s perspective on what femininity is was thought to be weak and insignificant.

After I said all this I’ll share with you the reason I came to believe that as a Christian I needed to walk away from the lesbian identity and lifestyle.

First: I spent most of my life in the church, a spirit-filled
church and influenced musically by Southern Gospel music
and Vineyard worship in the 90’s and early part of ’00’s

My youth pastor and his wife loved me in a way that had been so completely foreign to me and never judged me. They came along side and sought to see what God had been doing in my life. And then confirmed what God had been saying to me. To have them embrace me and say “we love you” and for them to continue loving me and looking past my appearance and behavior was incredible.

Most people in the glbt community haven’t see the Christian God of love because people are telling them “God hates you” that’s the message for the most part they hear. “God hates you but he has a wonderful plan for you life,” how confusing is that message?

My Youth pastor and his wife never hesitated to call sin-sin but conveyed to me God’s amazing love for me.

Roman’s chapter One speaks about the problem of man being bend towards worshiping the creation instead of the creator. It wasn’t a portion of scripture to slam those who are gay yet I’ve heard preachers slam those in the gay community with that scripture verse. I was moved and convicted and turned from my sin when I came to experience and see the kindness of the Lord. In Chapter 2 of Romans Paul continues to mention that …”it’s the kindness of the Lord that leads people to repentance.”

I could go on about this but I won’t….
I wanted to just clarify that same-sex attraction is not really about spiritual attraction but spiritual attraction could be present for some. Same-sex attraction is based upon a need to connect in a healthy way with members of the same-sex and largely for the reason is that’s been a void for them.

Sincerely,
Sarah.
Joshua March 16th, 2008 11:29 pm

I find it very fascinating that the term “postmodern” has arisen in this blog. About three years ago, I did some extensive research into postmodernism regarding its development and its effects on society’s worldview and beliefs. In my search for a definition for postmodernism, I found that it was hard to find a concrete definition. Ironically, I found many different broad, nebulous definitions and ultimately concluded that: postmodernism, by definition, is opposed to being defined, which is why there is more than one definition being interpreted by each individual. One could say that postmodernism is “whatever you want it to be.”

I really believe the postmodern idea, whether realized or not, is like a huge shadow covering the U.S. and is “resonating” among our population. One may ask, why is this a problem? It is a problem, because it brings along with it a mindset and ultimately a lifestyle of complete relativism. Like I said above, postmodernism is hard to define, but it has plenty of precursors and influences that ultimately shaped and developed the concept of postmodernism. Some of these include, structuralism, pluralism, pragmatism, eclecticism, constructivism…etc. The terms mentioned above all have one thing in common…relativism. All of them result in a denial of absolute truth, a denial and questioning of reality, individuals create their own truth, the blending of right and wrong…etc. In my research paper, I concluded that: “these outcomes (the results I listed above) lead to one main negative result: that life has no ultimate purpose. There is nothing to live for, which makes hope obsolete.” This proposes a problem because the postmodern lifestyle is extremely attractive (it is easily resonated or passed from one person to the next), there are no standards to live up to, and no one can judge you, except for yourself, because you are your own ruler and create your own morality.

The bigger problem is that this mindset/lifestyle has infiltrated the church body, as Mr. John Paul Jackson stated. This is extremely dangerous territory because we have those who state they hold on to the only true faith yet do not believe in certain concepts bluntly stated as truth. For now we have truth, which is not always true, making truth relative, resulting in the contradiction of the definition of truth itself.

I know there is a negative connotation that results when one talks about standing for absolute truth and morality, but God is absolute truth and morality. Morals should be the by-products of our lives when we are living for Christ and we should not be afraid to stand for the truth, absolutes, and morality (not religion-based). Sorry for the long post, but I really agree with Mr. Jackson.
Ginger March 17th, 2008 2:00 am

The enemy is trying so very hard to silence the church. Back before the 2nd Reformation the church was silenced for about 1000 years. The reasons were 1) Sin and 2) Compromise. So what do we do about it? ‘Put on righteousness and faith and love as our breastplate’ (See Isaiah 59:17 and I Thess 5:8) These things guard our heart. If we don’t put these on, our hearts get entangled by the devils strongholds and the result is compromise! We start to lean on our own understanding as opposed to the Spirit of wisdom and counsel. I believe compromise and sin are the major weaknesses of the body of Christ right now and this is what we need to pray against.

The term “Christian” has been so watered down that some people do not even wish to be labeled as that. This is sad to me because The Lord says “if my people, who are called by my name (II Chronicles 7:14), will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.” That may seem a bit of a legalistic statement from me, because we shouldn’t be ashamed or afraid of a label. The Lord said that’s who we are and we need to embrace that. I feel this is an absolute. To make it clear who we are and who we represent and wear His name wherever we go. Don’t forget, people have been martyred being labeled a Christian so I do believe it does have power.

I went to church with my cousin a few weeks ago. It’s a very large church here and they broadcast services on TV every Sunday. It’s also a young church that is “cool to go to”. It’s a good place to hear something positive all while the youth enjoy playing the complimentary Nintendo 360’s in the game room. I asked my cousin what she loved about her church and she said that the she liked the Pastor, the messages seemed to be relevant to her, and the worship part is very short because it bores her. And my heart drops to the floor, a lump starts to form in my throat and tears start to trickle down and I realize that THIS IS NOT WORKING FOR HER. Unfortunately, the only way many people seek God is through going to church. And so it seems that many growing churches are the ones that lure people in with all their “stuff” and it gives people the opportunity to “fit church in”…. to feel like you’ve done your good deed and now you just gotta work through the week and try to survive because what you received at church wasn’t enough to feed on. These are “SAVED” Christians I am talking about. I pray for a holy conviction and a righteous church that will stand up for the whole truth without compromise.

I pray we can arise with radical faith and charge forward with great expectations.
One of Those March 17th, 2008 9:09 am

Yes Randy! You are so correct! You know I don’t even know how I really slipped back into seeking God again but it happened when I found this blog site. I thought the only way I would come back to God was through some gigantic enormous life rattling miracle. It is a bit strange that I can’t even identify the moment something changed. Now I’m so hungry I about can’t stand it between John Paul’s blog entries!

I’m so thankful you are doing this John Paul!

One of Those
Dennis P March 17th, 2008 10:47 am

John Paul,

I think, in essence, you write that we cannot have love without absolutes. Without absolutes, there are no guideposts, there are no moorings we can attach ourselves to, and as you say, one’s view is right because it is their own, and my view is right because it is my own. In that vein, one can say, I don’t believe in the law of gravity, and by acting on that belief by jumping off a building, we would see the consequences of such a belief. Because we do not see consequences of the violation of God’s moral law as evidently as with the law of gravity, we do not think the laws or consequences exist. However, if we opened our eyes, we would see. The problem is our understanding is darkened so we do not see. For example, the effects of divorce upon a family, husband, wife, children, etc. I’m not saying there are not situations where it is warranted. But even where it is warranted, there are stil repercussions and if looked at with our eyes opened, there are severe consequences.

Whether we believe something is true or not does not negate whether something is true or not. With absolutes, we can know where we are as a people, that is, I am lost and in rebellion against God if I have not repented. Then my need for Jesus becomes evident. Otherwise, I’ll float in my own la la land and be utterly shocked on that day. And shocked is probably not even close to what it will be. I can remember walking down the street at college one day, thinking about the fear of man, and God spoke to me and said that people really do go to hell. That helped dispel the fear of man and the relativism in my head.

I think this is why Ray Comfort’s evangelism tools are popular. Years ago, it was common in the culture for references to God, the ten commandments, etc to be evident. In the large metro city near where I live, one Sunday edition of the paper had a section about criminals at the turn of the 20th century (early 1900’s) with snippets of articles printed back then. One article noted that one guy had been under the preaching of gospel many times, but it had never penetrated his heart. That was apparently the everyday vernacular, enough so to be printed in the city’s secular newspaper. I believe children were taught their ABC’s in school using the Bible. Now, the generation coming up does not even know who Jesus is and the ten commandments, and the law of God, are no longer part of the public consciousness. So when Comfort preaches the law to people, at some points it seems they are almost relieved to hear there are absolutes!! Ironic that his name is Comfort - probably not!! He brings the law of God to people which the world would think is no comfort…but from an eternal perspective is comfort. One last thought…one of the leading newspapers in the northeast had an opinion blog about whether the governor of NY was brought down by puritanical fervor, and that really, he maybe should have been allowed to stay in office except for this. I am not pointing the finger at him, I have prayed for him and his family, but just shows how far things are off when the supposed intellectual center of the country thinks it’s because of puritanism and not the because of consequences. In reality, how smart can we be if we do not fear God?

Blessings,
Dennis
Dennis P March 17th, 2008 11:04 am

JP,

One further thought, and that is, if we hold the line of thinking that my view is right because it is my own, and your’s is right because it is your own, in essence what we are saying is that we’re each God because we have the final say on what’s right and wrong. Talk about a heavy load!!

Kind of a humorous look at this is in the movie, “Bruce Almighty,” when Jim Carrey is given the responsibility of being God and starts hearing everyone’s prayers. It way overwhelms him and at one point, he just says “yes” to them all. The result is that the world spins into chaos. Just THAT alone, God answering prayer and doing it in wisdom, is amazing. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. I don’t want God’s job!!

Blessings,
Dennis
One of Those March 17th, 2008 11:55 am

I have been holding myself back but the “how” question in all of this still hammers away in my head. How do I have that True, Pure, Spiritual life? Maybe I ask this question because I have tried so many different things and I still don’t understand how to walk in what I see you (John Paul) and others walk in. How do I walk up to the guy in a wheel chair and see him healed? Why can’t I go up to that terribly depressed person I see in the store and see them delivered/healed/touched by God? How do I go into the Children’s hospital and heal the child in the bed next to me who is told will not be going home…whose parent still tries to hope for something good? How do I pray for healing for my own child? How do I let love flow out of me so that the Kingdom of Heaven touches earth? What pieces of the puzzle am I missing?

I want that relationship with God. I want His will be done on earth as it is in heaven. I keep asking myself ‘what is holding Christians back?’ What is holding me back? Is it lack of faith? Is it bitter roots? It is strongholds? Is it not enough time with God? Is it lack of knowledge?…..and on and on and on…..What is going on?

If we do not have that deep relationship with God I do not think we can exude His life changing power. I don’t think we can show His love. I think there is a difference between trying to love one another and having His love for one another.

This distinction became painfully evident to me during a final exam in college. I thought that I had all the Scriptures memorized. I thought I knew all that the professor had pointed out as important to know. I was ready for the final exam. I was undone and unprepared when I read the essay topic. The question explained how Christians were commanded to love one another. Then, it asked us to explain how love could be commanded. What was love? Was it an emotion and if so how do you command an emotion? What was love that it could be commanded?

I stared at the blank paper in horror having no idea what to say. I somehow stumbled or rather, fumbled my way through a very poor answer. If I remember correctly, I didn’t do too well on that test.

I look back and think that it is only the love that God shows towards us as individuals that can truly effect the necessary changes in the world around us. I can try to force myself to love someone by doing what I think would show that person love. That is my effort. That is my idea of love. That is my well meaning and only partly effective effort at ‘loving one another.’ I personally learned a few years later that I had a very incorrect idea of what love was. How could I have truly shown God’s love when I didn’t know what it really was?

Perhaps I am wrong but I tend to think we all need to be led to the source of love in order to effectively love one another. Otherwise we are ministering our own perception and ideas of love. While we may do well with that measure of love we are not reaching our potential. If God is love how can we give love without Him? There are many imitations of God’s character. I personally want to let His love flow out of me rather than my interpretation of love.

My big question is why so many Christians really truly want to walk in a supernatural, exciting, powerful, and world changing relationship with God but so few are able? I do not think it is because God does not want to pour out His Spirit on the earth. I don’t think it is age, experience, maturity, or wisdom that is lacking. God has moved through young, inexperienced, immature, unwise people in the past. I think it is reasonable to ask God what is holding so many back.

At this point in my life, with everything falling apart, I want to know. I feel like I have a chance here to ‘restart’ my life and I want to be on the right track. This is the track I’ve always dreamed of….the True, Pure, Spiritual life in relationship with God. I know dreams can come true.

One of Those
Shirley C. March 17th, 2008 12:16 pm

This blog is getting pretty interesting. I thought that I was done with it for this date but after reading what this blog community has written,it made me go back to John Paul’s blog at the top of this page and my eyes focused on this passage:

“Jesus had a clear set of absolutes, and those absolutes were foundational to the building of the Kingdom. Yet, He without partiality applied them to broken people without condemnation. He called sin – sin in a way that attracted the broken rather than repelling them. Jesus did not hammer those who did not know Him - He loved them. He did not condemn, He convicted. He did not think in terms of situational ethics, but in terms of heavenly mandates.”

Primarily in this passage, the word that stood out the most was the word, “attraction”……Why were the broken attracted to Jesus? What was He carrying that attracted them to Him? What attracts good friends to good friends or even a man to a woman that will eventually in most instances result in a marriage?

Some say it is the anointing of God moving through a human being. I will go one step further to say that it is the LOVE of God moving through the person in the person of the Holy Spirit and in the Power of God’s Love for us.

So what I am discerning here is the very thing that attracted sinner’s to Jesus and Jesus to the sinner’s was God’s Love being poured out through the life of Jesus for mankind will He was in the flesh so that we can have an example of how to be Jesus in the flesh here on this earth. My question is in agreement to what John Paul is asking is: Are we there yet as the Body of Christ? and if not what can we do to get there and how can we as a community carry each other in order to arrive at that place, where we can be completely authentic, not perfect but always moving toward greater intimacy and authenticity in our walk.
Whoa! Lord, Take Us There! Take Us There!

Peace
Shirley C.
Shirley C. March 17th, 2008 12:20 pm

I made a mistake in my spelling:

So what I am discerning here is the very thing that attracted sinner’s to Jesus and Jesus to the sinner’s was God’s Love being poured out through the life of Jesus for mankind (will=while) He was in the flesh so that we can have an example of how to be Jesus in the flesh here on this earth. My question is in agreement to what John Paul is asking is: Are we there yet as the Body of Christ? and if not what can we do to get there and how can we as a community carry each other in order to arrive at that place, where we can be completely authentic, not perfect but always moving toward greater intimacy and authenticity in our walk.
Whoa! Lord, Take Us There! Take Us There!
Antonio March 17th, 2008 12:21 pm

In Marilyn Dylkes’ comment, she said something that the Lord spoke to me this weekend through one word. He said “Supremacy”, and that opened up a universe of understanding for me, that I am still praying about and exploring…

Marilyn said “God is supreme”. When God said “Supremacy” to me, one of the things that came to mind was Matt Dammons movie “The Bourne Supremacy” - what an image of the nem birth, don’t you agree…

There are things that don’t match, because Jason Bourne was fighting with the power that created what he was fighting against…

But the things that do match, is that he went up against all odds. He fought against death all the time and always won, whilst bringing down a lethal system…(those who have seen the Bourne trilogy know what I mean).

He bore a lot of pain, but was always in a position of supremacy over his enemies…always one step ahead, always leading the game, and always effective in combat. His objective was always accomplished even if he was totally wrecked in the end…

What do I mean by this…I beleive that a lot of people reborn of a Supreme God, haven’t fully comprehended the Spiritually Supreme nature that they are made of…and I am only beginning to really see now, in the way that I am talking about - the “Bourne” way (where applicable, please) and the initial apostolic way, especially through Pauls life…

I know that supreme or supremacy may sound arrogant and proud, but I beleive that in it’s correct perspective and place, it brings a freedom and breakthrough in the Spirit, with the power to build a fearless and fierce fighting force against the ruthless, unscrupulous kingdom of darkness, that will instill the supreme kingdom of light in the earth…

There is so much to this that I can only begin to say what I think of it…and there is still so much that I don’t fully know yet…but I am still seeking, and for me, this is a renewed mindset that is helping me to see the victory over so many wars, present and future…

God Bless!

PS: supremacy will always be over spiritual enemies and not human beings, as in controll of them…it’s hating hell and the wells of darkness and loving people and mankind…keep it in perspective now - I feel like a kid with a tomahawk in my hand…gotta keep it aimed properly - love your comments guys, lets push the envelope just a bit further, and a bit further and a bit…more…
Antonio March 17th, 2008 12:35 pm

I forgot to say something back there…

Those of us that have walked a mile or two, and to those one there way, even looking at the smallest things, notice how the God given supremacy in us, has the ability to bring us to a place of victory over our own internal enemies and lethal systems…

Even just by comparing our pre-reborn state to our post-reborn state…

Just imagine the possibilities in this ongoing process…
Antonio March 17th, 2008 12:49 pm

What a beautiful newsletter John Paul, I’ve just finished reading it…

Ok, that was my last comment (for now at least :))

Finnest of Blessings…
Will March 17th, 2008 3:14 pm

Robert, hey there, i found your comment kind of amusing (no offense) but I can assure you I am not John Paul’s Right hand man. If there is any correlation or thread that the interaction of his blog and my thoughts somehow occur it is because of either we think in a similar way or God’s spirit is doing something.

To be perfectly honest, John Paul is one of my more favorite spiritual teachers, but I don’t even call myself a ‘Christian’ as much as I am a following of Christ. I am told by many I am ‘out there’ or really you know… edgy. But its not intentionally it just all happened in life that way. I enjoy interacting with people associated with streams because I believe they are at least open minded to discussion and spiritual interaction, I do not believe however that streams is ‘it’ or the ‘cutting edge ministry’ in regards to spiritual teaching, I just think they are good in general. Its good basics, good milk, but there is spiritual meat that is even further along. I don’t want this to sound like a slam to anyone, but I can assure you that I do not even know John Paul Jackson on a personal level. So there is no way that i could be ‘hired as his right hand man’ although i find the imagery of that kind of amusing and fun.

TO Sarah, I apologize if my comments sounded like I ‘knew the right answer’ or like I was a source of clarity on the gay/lesbian issue. I do not understand it all, and I was just sharing a experience that i had with God teaching me discerning of spiritual elements. In the situation, the man I was referring to was also heavily into the occult and spirit realms, and so that aspect may be some clarity to the story above. I am very thankful that you were open to share your story and your perspective. I have many friends who are gay and lesbian and I love them very much, I believe God loves them as well and that God will always see them as his children.

I have taken the view that God does not throw anyone into hell, that people will throw themselves into hell. I believe that Christ came to save the whole world, and that includes the glbt community. I again apologize if I offended you in some way, it was not intended to do that. The attraction that you talk about seems like it is also another piece in the puzzle and maybe the combination of each persons experiences and understandings from many different backgrounds could give us all a very clear picture of the dimensions of spirit soul and body.

One of the things I was saying about broken people and that homosexuality was a result and not the issue at hand brings more clarity with what you have shared. Since you were looking for parts of love you never received from the same-sex that would be more of the deeper issue than the homosexuality isn’t it? I personally just don’t even view people in everyday life as whether they are gay, straight, bi, tri, or anything. I like to look at each person as a person that is a human being, created in Gods image. But for the sake of discussion, I know that homosexuality is a big issue in American Christianity right now..mainly because they are all guilty of the same sin they hate so much because they all want to be like each other, a homo-sect sort of spirit. You know, where they flock to like-minded churches were they bunch the grapes up and don’t let the wine be cross-pollinated because they want to only be around people with the same thoughts.. the same sect thinking. Is it possible that through the situations of difficultly you went through growing up that the healing of those situations is really the more important issue than healing you of homosexuality. Isn’t the homosexual attraction simply the result of something else?

I am just asking questions because I want to express that i hope the communication levels are open, I was never intending to isolate or demonize anyone here.. i really feel horrible if that is what happened!!

and JOE: I would like to comment that there are many things people struggle with for years. But I believe part of the problem is that we are taught law in churches and not grace. Instead of looking at how horrible we are as sinners, we should see the goodness of God and his mercy> I can tell you that the TURNING POINT in my life was when I stopped looking at myself and trying to work on myself and trying to be a better person and get rid of sin. When I stopped looking at me, and Just started spending all the energy i was spending trying to fix myself instead spending it on worshiping and spending time with Jesus, suddenly things just started to fall away and disappear. It was as effortless as it could possibly be. I wondered how it could be so easily shaken off when I spent years trying to eradicate it myself. Amazingly, it was the working of the holy spirit that did it all, i had to just step aside and say, ‘only you can do it Lord.’

John and Beverly Sheasby are wonderful teachers/preachers who have a ministry called Liberated Living. They have free podcasts and they preach on how we are new in Christ, I would encourage you Joe to check them out as their messages might be a healing balm for you as they were for me. When we are made born again, God doesn’t see us in our sin, he sees us in Christ.. what good news!! What good news!!! Thats why I believe that sin no longer exists in the new life, and that ‘moral champions’ is something more religious than spiritual.. but thats my thoughts.. and may everyone have the freedom to pursue God and learn and change thoughts on their own .. (another source you may want to consider is the writings of John G Lake. WE can have spiritual victory NOW! we don’t have to wait till we are in heaven because once you are saved, technically you live in heaven AND earth at the same time. whew!! that is good news too!

i love everyone here!! thanks for the great great comments.. I love coming back to check in on everybody’s thoughts, its one of the few ministry websites in the Christian world I like to frequent!!!
Connie in St. Paul March 17th, 2008 3:21 pm

My first visit to this page John Paul. Deepest grattitude is expressed for your visit to Redeeming Love the 1st weekend in March. There is a cry of the Fire of His Holiness to burn in us in this region. I just have to share this short dream I had the other night.On a chair sits a white-haired man wearing a white suit, dark little bow tie much like Colonel Sanders in the Kentucky Fried Chicken commericals of long ago. I hear in my heart. ” I want you to study and know Absolutes in my Word I will show you them. ” To have an understanding opened of the revelation of Absolutes, absolutely(!!) shifts thinking and transforms ones mind to have the mind of Christ. It is the beginning of a real transformation journey. This coffee blog I’m really going to learn from and hope to be a part of in the future.
In His Grip,
So I say and pray for
Ron March 17th, 2008 3:43 pm

I love the comments some people make. I think all of us knows what would happen if a few moral champions would exist today.Rev.11 and the book of acts tells of this kind of person.It was mind boggling to see the iron curtain come down with out a shot being fired. A government saying I wish to be no more. Sooooo is it possible for the church to do a 180 degree turn now that is a mind blower. Hugs to John Paul
Nazach March 17th, 2008 5:07 pm

A great word John Paul, so much to reflect on.

I would like you to comment sometime on the issue of conservatives versus moral champions.

I have found that in many ways the politicizing of true christianity has done much violence to message of justice mercy. So many well meaning Christians have banded with the frothing at the mouth,loveless, joyless, hatefilled political agenda of “conservativism” that sinners, including such as homosexuals, truly believe that we hate them. What an indictment on us, when the religious crowd of Jesus’ time refered to him scornfully as “the friend of sinners!”

There was a time that was when I was drawn to this movement since I despised far left moral relativism. But then I realized how much of the modern conservative movement has highjacked the faith, and how much of this movement was utterly bankrupt of love, compassion and mercy. Just listen to some of the icons of the movement on talk radio. Daily they give the enemies of God great occasion to blaspheme.

I truly believe that if we are to return to the message of the cross, this unholy union between the Babel of conservatism and true Christianity must be severed.
Scott Veatch March 17th, 2008 8:36 pm

At the core - instead of telling people what they shouldn’t be, we must be modeling what they COULD BE! - and latter takes care of the former ….

Love your insight JP - you are a model for me.
David from Louisiana March 17th, 2008 10:23 pm

One of those,

Maybe part of the answer to some of your questions can be found in Jn 5.19

I am not saying that I understand how it works.

I believe our senses can be developed in order to “See” what Father is doing and work in agreement with Him.

God bless
David
Renae March 17th, 2008 10:32 pm

Beautiful post. Beautiful truth. Thank you.

–renae
http://www.renaebrumbaugh.com
http://rbcoffeetalk.blogspot.com
Sarah March 17th, 2008 10:55 pm

This one time when in my senior year of high school I ran home after school as did my brother as well. I managed to get home about 5 minutes before my brother had although we weren’t racing home. I can remember as I ran in through the front door and ran up the stairs and straight for the kitchen. I was thirsty! I wanted something to drink but I really didn’t know if it was water or what I wanted. I just opened the fridge door to see what I could find.

I saw this bottle in the fridge “Glacier Water” and I thought to myself, “sweet! my parents have bought water now this is better then tap water.” And so I reached out for the bottle but asked the question, “since when did my parents start buying bottled water?” That is when I decided to open the cap to find out what liquid had been inside that bottle. It turned out to be vinegar. I still don’t know why somebody placed vinegar in the fridge but didn’t question it and placed the bottle back inside the fridge.

At about that time my brother came running up the stairs and headed straight for that fridge. He opened the fridge door, grabbed the bottle and vinegar thinking it was water and began to chug that vinegar down. He did that before I could even warn him but when I saw the fact that it wasn’t registering to him that he was drinking water. I stood there stunned at the fact that he was just chuggin’ it back like he was. I then decided to just stand there to see how long it would take before my brother realized that he was drinking vinegar.

At the end I had a good laugh at the expense of my brother, that is what sisters do best at times when their brothers do stupid things.

Years later God began to use this experience to reveal something to me about myself and the condition of our “sin-nater” …the tendency within humanity to worship created things instead of the creator.

There are many people walking through life honestly believing they are drinking a pure form of water when in fact they have been drinking vinegar.

The question here is, what are the affects of ingesting vinegar?

It’s not that pretty. I’ve seen my brother’s experience and I’ve had a vinegar experience myself and I tell you, I was in this incredible amount of pain. My friends with me with laughing hysterically…not fun! Picture acid reflex times ten! I ended up having to see my doctor for him to prescribe some powerful medicine to calm down the acid build-up. To this day I cannot eat salt and vinegar chips. The smell of vinegar is repulsive!

The Psalmist writes….
“My soul, it thirst for God…”

In our humanity we go about trying to quench this thirst that God placed in us that we might receive the water that quenches that thirst. As Jesus spoke to the woman at the well he told this woman that He can give her Living Water that she might not get thirsty again. He offered her a solution to her problem. What He had to give to her.

There are people out there in the world who are hungry and thirsty for the real thing and they are going from one place to the next in order to find this real thing.

But one thing I know and from my own journey, I spent most of my life searching for the real thing and everything I did was based upon that search and when I found the real thing I found that my sin was the equivalent to drinking vinegar.

We have the real thing in relationship with Jesus.
Wendy March 17th, 2008 11:14 pm

One thing that I do know is that none of us can ever be perfect. Love is overlooking each other’s imperfections. That is the way that God loves us. When we are aware of our own imperfections, then we are able to overlook imperfection in others. I lived through a long term relationship with an extreme perfectionist and I can tell you that I would never want to do that to anyone. But, I think that because of what I have lived through, I have learned a lot from it. I believe God will fill us with his love, but none of us will ever have the perfect love that he has. So, I think that the lost really need to experience God’s supernatural love, which is only found in his presence. This is what will draw them salvation, because this is something that cannot be found in worldly living. A love that is so much deeper than anything that is humanly possible. The deep, deep love of Jesus. Who can resist it?
Sandra March 18th, 2008 12:34 am

My dear brother Joe L.yes man will never be exactly like Jesus but remember we have been created in His image and likeness, Praise Him, but remember every day every minute it is a choice that we have to make. Finally when we get to Heaven we will know that we are there not by chance but by choice. You see I used to fornicate if I may tell you this story of my life, yes I use to have a boyfriend and yes I used to sleep with him despite it was against God’s will concerning my life I tried everything I could to stop living in sin in that area because that was the one thing I struggle with in my life but I was never successful until finally I gave it all to Jesus and with the help of His Holy Spirit I have not committed fornication for almost 5 years and I really thank the Lord for His Grace my dear Joe the question you should be asking yourself is, truly is this thing you are struggling with worth you spending eternal life in hell? Meditate on 2 Chronicles 7vs14, God does not hide anything from us even in the old testment He taught us how to repent from our sinful nature, Amen. The other thing my dear brother if you really want to be kept I promise My Lord and Savior Oh Jesus, is more than able to keep you from falling. I am a living testimony of that and I would not be ashamed to stand on the empire state building and tell the world about how God the Lord is and His Love endureth forever more, Amen

I just got out of the military after serving almost 11 years and if you know anyone in the Army ask them to tell you about Camp Casey, South Korea; it is the worst place in the Army if you are a child of God to be stationed because then you will really find out how much you Love Him and are you willing on been obediant to His Word, Will and Ways. But mind even though there were so many people there who call themselves Christians were even living more in sin than the world people so of course I was an outcast but it was just a blessing because the Lord was more than able to fulfill the Word He gave me prior to me going to Korea. For the last maybe 5 years or so, have been the worst years of my life in the U.S. Army why, I don’t drink, party, gossip, sleep around like most of the soldiers do and to them mind you is the greatest life they are living so since I will not conform to their ways I have gone through some of the worst presecutions in my Chirstian walk but I count it all joy because I am so thankful that God’s Grace kept me that eventhough I was in the mist of sin I did not became part of it, Praise Him. I am so so thankful to the Lord truly He is Worthy to Praise all I ever wanted was to be a great wife to the man God created for me but for now I am still single and I love Him for He is so Faithful.

See Joe L., Jesus is not a respector of person stop making excuses and if you really want Him to keep you my dear brother He will I know Him and His Word is true. I leave you with Jeremiah 29vs13.

Lots of Love
Sandra
Michelle March 18th, 2008 2:45 pm

I just want to say that I feel like a woman who has found her long-lost family (quirks and all). I also view my church that way too. Getting to know you all is such a joy !!! Blessings !!!
Mike March 18th, 2008 5:25 pm

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

I think that the community of believers that call themselves “church” have substituted the kingdom value of “all” are reconciled for the subjective value of “we’re” the reconciled. As of today, at this moment, there is not one person on this entire planet that has any trespasses with God, period. It has been this way since the crucifixion.

Believers are redeemed by the blood. That is the difference. If we’re going to be spiritual let’s attend to the business of being the ambassador of reconciliation according to what the kingdom has clearly defined. It takes a moral champion to do what the kingdom of God declares is to be done. We all stand equal to the task in God’s eyes. So why are we passing judgment when God already has? Our function is to merely do what Jesus did: bring the people to the Father.
Antonio March 18th, 2008 7:11 pm

Well Mike, I would like to disagree with you if I may…because of the following that I found…2 Cor 5:16-20 (The Message New Testament)

“Because of this decision we don’t evaluate people by what they have or how they look. We looked at the Messiah that way once and got it all wrong, as you know. We certainly don’t look at him that way anymore. Now we look inside, and what we see is that anyone united with the Messiah gets a fresh start, is created new. The old life is gone; a new life burgeons! Look at it! All this comes from the God who settled the relationship between us and him, and then called us to settle our relationships with each other. God put the world square with himself through the Messiah, giving the world a fresh start by offering forgiveness of sins. God has given us the task of telling everyone what he is doing. We’re Christ’s representatives. God uses us to persuade men and women to drop their differences and enter into God’s work of making things right between them. We’re speaking for Christ himself now: Become friends with God; he’s already a friend with you.
How? you say. In Christ. God put on him the wrong who never did anything wrong, so we could be put right with God.”

I would like to point out some things in this text but I think that after reading it through two or three times that it becomes self explanatory…

God Bless!
Antonio March 18th, 2008 7:18 pm

Forgive me Mike, I forgot to agree with you in the part that you were scriptual…in the scriptual part, I agree with you…

God Bless!
Antonio March 18th, 2008 7:50 pm

Ok, my last two comments didn’t really help, did they…

Ok, here we go…this is where I disagree…

If every person on this entire planet doesn’t have any trespasses with God, what are the differences that have kept them apart from God?

Why would God “give the world a fresh start by offering forgiveness of sins” if no body has trespasses with Him? Forgiveness of what if it isn’t there anymore?

I beleive Jesus made a way and offers a way that didn’t exist before, in order for us to be able to settle our differences with God and re-establish relationship with Him…until we repent of our tresspasses, they are still sitting between us and God…

But I like what the first part says, “Because of this decision we don’t evaluate people by what they have or how they look. We looked at the Messiah that way once and got it all wrong, as you know…”

And the part that says, “God uses us to persuade men and women to drop their differences and enter into God’s work of making things right between them. We’re speaking for Christ himself now: Become friends with God; he’s already a friend with you.”

Lets keep talking…

God Bless!
Lisa March 18th, 2008 10:41 pm

Dear John Paul,
Continued Glorious Blessings to you and through you. I have witnessed and been part of the Illuminating Church meetings that you have had in North Sutton New Hampshire. I have never experienced such AWESOMENESS of the Glory of God until then.
The Father and The Son and The Heavenly Angels–The Power and The LOVE was there!!!!! The Beautiful Peace of The Love!!! Oh Holy Spirit be with all who Love Thee and and all who do not yet know thee! Amen Amen Amen Glory Glory Glory!!!
Paul March 19th, 2008 11:53 am

One of the coolest things I ever did was to put a crystal glass half filled with water in front of my girls when they just little. Then taking the drop of water on the tip of my finger, and pausing to look at them for a second, then making that sound by rubbing my finger around the top of the Glass.
They just went wide eyed and oooh’ed and haww’ed. Then they wanted to try it. We had so much fun with that. You cant keep it going all the time, and lots of times it take 2 – 3 try’s to get it to “tone” but they loved it and so did I.
I know there are specific mathematical absolutes that govern the sound waves and vibrations in the crystal, if they are not prefect there is no sound. There is no way my big finger or sightless mind can line all that stuff up to make it ring perfect each time I try to do it. And can you see me trying to explain the math to a couple of 5 and 6 year olds? Talk about killing the mood. But I could say “you are making the glass shake, which shakes the water, which shakes the air and makes a noise.
Romans says that sin takes the scriptures and wields them as a weapon against us. The Holy Spirit takes the scriptures and leads us in Love action that mimics Jesus’s life.
The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Maybe only He could have lived the Law of Love, maybe it ultimately was written only for him to fulfill, not us. After all our fingers are too big and we do not see clearly.
I think, I don’t know, but suspect, that “truth” is a lot bigger than an “absolute.” “Truth” may be an “absolute” lived perfectly by Love. When The Father wanted it to be lived. When that happens, maybe its then, that the sinners hear a heavenly tone and rejoice.
Michelle March 19th, 2008 12:57 pm

Getting back to Mike’s comment, I believe what Jesus did for the whole world but there must be repentance and then they must appropriate the Blood. That’s why so many haven’t experienced relationship with Jesus/God. When I was younger, I didn’t understand how it all worked so I appropriated the Blood every time I sinned. It didn’t cleanse my conscience and I was confused……until I truly repented (made the l80 degree turn) and THEN the Blood cleansed my conscience !!!!! I believe some Christians, whether lack of understanding or whatever) think that the Grace of God let’s us continue to sin. But it’s the FEAR (reverential awe) of God that causes us to stop sinning. Picture a scale with two sides: the Grace of God on one side and the Reverential Fear of God on the other. It’s balanced……I will give the credit where its due: A.R. Bernard’s teaching on living a balanced life. Excellent !!!
Wiccanchick March 20th, 2008 12:13 am

Are those absolutes you mention for today? What is sin to you might not be sin to me so I am confused on how it can be absolute.

BTW: I did like what you wrote about religious loftiness. I have certainly experienced that first hand
Nina March 20th, 2008 7:09 am

Yeah….I think I need to spend a little time where Lisa has been!! I know that the best “hot spot” is within, but oh to experience corporately the wonder, love and awe of the Living God!!
Paul March 20th, 2008 8:45 am

And were they for back then either? –
I would answer the question “is a bible verse truth” with “yes”
I would answer the question “is a truth absolute” with “yes”
So what’s up with David eating the showbread, he should have been stoned
So what’s up with God sending people off to war, when thou shall not Kill
So what’s up with the woman caught in adultery, she should have been stoned

I don’t buy the situational ethics stuff, and I do not think truth is “relative” to me. But there is something else going on. “Truth” has got to be a bigger thing than just a “this is a sin and this is not” thing. The -attitude- of an absolute is present in every condemning accusation, pinning a person to his punishment or to a standard.

Without mercy can there be truth?
vincent March 20th, 2008 9:57 am

Crystalline notes

Naming something quantifies its form -
and communication is universal.

Vincent E. Sucec 3/19/08
Terry Wagner March 20th, 2008 11:56 am

Right on John Paul
One of Those March 20th, 2008 3:50 pm

John Paul, I wanted to clarify a couple of things…can you post this one instead of the last one?

1. Just a thought Wiccanchick….

Perhaps an absolute would be a law. Take for instance the law of gravity. You cannot see, hear, touch, or taste gravity. However, depending on your proximity to a large mass, you would feel different degrees of gravity. If you are very very far from the earth or sun or whatever large mass it may be, you will not feel much gravity or acceleration towards that object. Even though you are very far away it does not negate the absolute of gravity.

Now, on the spiritual side of the coin…If you are very very far from God you will not recognize or perceive His laws. The further you are away from them the less aware of them you are. But, it does not mean those laws do not exist. However, the closer you get to Him the more aware you are of His absolutes. As you are drawn closer to Him you feel more attraction to Him. The closer you are to Him to more aware you are of His absolutes.

Isn’t it true that the more in love you are with someone the more you desire to please them? Well, I believe it is that way with God. The more you gravitate toward Him the more you love Him…the more you gravitate towards Him…the more you love Him…etc. So, as you get closer and closer you desire more and more to be like with Him. I don’t believe trying not to sin is about pushing our sleeves up and furrowing our brow and digging in our heals in as hard as we can. True, sometimes we fight to do the right thing but over time, as we spend more time with Him and come to know Him better, we become more like Him. We don’t want to do the things we know He doesn’t like. And, it is not just about what He wants! It is about keeping us from the consequences that come from breaking His natural spiritual laws.

He has not created absolutes to hurt people. He has created order through His laws. Imagine our universe without absolutes. Some people would fly off the earth and others would stay put. Nothing would be predictable or dependable. Also, imagine a child growing up with no absolutes. More than likely that child will get seriously hurt or head down a path of complete unruliness. Imagine a 3 year old in a kitchen of hot pans, boiling water, sharp knives, tall chairs, and no rules.

I think we are like little children in a dangerous kitchen. We need guidance, rules, and discipline to know we are loved and cared for. God doesn’t want us to get burned, stab ourselves, or fall off and hit our head. However, He also gives us free will.

So, I think the answer is that even though your perception of sin is different than John Paul Jackson’s, absolutes are still absolutes. We are all a certain distance from God depending our walk in life. We all have varying degrees of understanding of His laws. Some are easy and apparent. Some are more elusive. All of us will be brought before Him one day. Suddenly and fully we will be aware of His laws and absolutes and we will know where we broke them. The consequences of our sin will be fully reaped at that point unless we have been forgiven. Jesus came to take on responsibility for and negate all the times we broke the law. We broke the law, He paid to get us out of jail. We can choose today to come before Him and have Him pay our debts.

The laws God created are still in effect today. God would prefer that we not attempt to break them for our own safety. After all, how silly would it be to try to break the law of gravity by jumping off a 10 story building? We know the consequences. I think we are all like little children not fully aware of the consequences of breaking God’s laws and absolutes.

One of Those
Antonio March 21st, 2008 2:06 pm

I liked your last comment One of Those, that was nice…

God Bless!
Kimberly Keene April 3rd, 2008 4:35 pm

Hi John! First of all I would like to say, TO GOD BE ALL THE GLORY! I love your relevant teachings and thank God for the prophetic ministry He has given you.

I believe that everyone who calls himself/herself a Christian should be living out God’s absolutes. I also believe that when we live out these absolutes it takes the pressure off of us when it comes to making moral and life decisions. We are also lifting up Jesus when we live out these truths, and in doing so the Lord can draw all men to Himself. I believe in giving people God’s truth, not my opinion, but I always do it in love. For without love we have nothing.
Thank you again for creating this site just for us to read you blogs. God bless.
New Wineskin April 10th, 2008 6:38 am

John Paul,

Thank God for your faith to do all the things you’re doing and for His anointing of excellence. Thank you for the battles you’ve fought which allow you to share things that bless us. Thank you for being a friend of God. All posters–thank you for your passion, sensitivity and thirst for truth. You are amazing and God will bless you and give the desires of your heart because you let yourselves be drawn to the truth.

I just found this site recently, and it’s so beautiful–like things done by the hand of God, it seems almost too good to be true. The insight born of the Word and great sensitivity born of love with which John Paul writes is amazing, and so is the incredible dialog of those drawn to this blog. How cool!

To the poster who is discouraged about the sin and demonic backlash he is fighting, remember: God sees everything that’s going on. He knows of your struggles, He knows how difficult things are for you and everything you’re up against. He NEVER, EVER stops loving for you and rooting you on, and He’s always extending forgiveness. God is fighting battles for you on your behalf. Jesus and The Holy Spirit are interceeding for you all the time, and you are a child of God. Nothing can separate you from His love.

Also remember that He who is in you (The Holy Spirit) is stronger than he who is in the world (Satan). As the Word says, we are not unaware of Satan’s schemes. Satan’s methods include discouragement and intimidation. But Satan’s methods only work when the faith countering them is not sufficient (hence the mention in Ephesians ch. 6 of “the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish ALL the flaming arrows of the evil one”). Don’t be troubled by this. Who among us is not lacking in faith? How many times did Jesus call his own disciples “you of little faith”? When we realize that God is perfect and 100% faithful to His own holy character and all His promises all the time, it becomes evident that any lack of faith on our part is an injustice against Him. God has brought my own lack of faith to my attention and called me to get rid of doubt and fear. I ask God almost every day for more faith because I know I need it so badly.

Faith is “the evidence of things not seen,” etc. The whole point of faith is that we’re believing for something that we don’t see with our eyes, which in the case of your current predicament would be victory over the sins with which you are struggling. The Bible says that “It’s impossible to please God without faith.” God is pleased greatly when He has the opportunity to bless us and in so doing display His mercy, grace and kindness to us. God promised the Israelites that they would enter into and own the “Promised Land”–a “land flowing with milk and honey.” But to arrive there from Egypt, they had to go through a desert, a “thirsty and waterless land, with its venomous snakes and scorpions.” (Keep in mind that the Bible says that we believers are “Spiritual Israel” and thus these pictures of literal, physical Israel give us pictures in the physical realm of what we believers experience spiritually. It’s also worth noting that, in Luke, Jesus uses that same term, “snakes and scorpions,” as a euphemism for demons, indicating that in our spiritual walk of faith, we will be opposed by the demonic and it will not be pleasant.) In the book of Hebrews, God sums up the desert experience by saying that it was a test of the Israelites faith. They had to go on an unpleasant trek through the desert and then fight what appeared to be impossible battles in order to take the Promised Land. God had demonstrated His miraculous power and faithfulness to them, but only a few of them held on to their faith when faced with troubles that required them to trust God.

So the question is (and God asks me this whenever I face trials)–do we trust God, and do we have faith in Him? Has God ever not kept a promise? Has God ever been unfaithful? There are times when our eyes of flesh want to see God as being unfaithful, but in the end God always proves faithful. He is the Rock. God, who is constantly being accused falsely by His own creations, is blessed when we take Him at His Word. We can bless God and touch His heart. As the Bible says, we can grieve Him or we can give Him joy. We are His children. Faith is something God desires from us. It proves that we are on His side and belong to Him in the context of a world full of false accusation constantly being unjustly levelled against God. But faith is a BATTLE, a battle of the will, as displayed by the man who told Jesus, “I believe–help me overcome my unbelief.”

There is a term in the Bible for what you are experiencing right now. It is called “the days of small things.” In your case, whatever victory over sin you are experiencing seems to be small in your eyes. The Bible tells us to not despise the days of small things, and that those who are faithful with a little will be given much more. This is a spiritual principle you can bank on. The Bible also says that we don’t need to be perfect or accomplish all this on our own–we just need faith “as small as a mustard seed.” As Jesus pointed out, mustard seeds start out tiny and grow to be very large plants. So it is with faith. Faith starts out small, and as we let God’s Spirit water it and let it draw nutrients from the circumstances of our life here on earth, it grows. Don’t be discouraged by what your eyes see–that is not the life of faith. Hold all the doubt in your mind captive to Christ. The Bible says that it is our faith that overcomes the evil one, that we use our spiritual gifts “in proportion to our faith,” and that unlike most of the other things we can get in life, our faith brings us lasting treasure in eternity. Because our faith makes such a huge eternal impact in our lives and the lives of others, Satan attempts to destroy our faith. But Jesus Christ has given us “authority to trample on snakes and scorpions.”

God never gives up on us, He’s always reaching out to us. Endure in your faith. Ask Him for more faith whenever you stumble. It may be that God wants to cause you to ask Him over and over again for more faith because He wants to use you to be someone with very great faith who can do great exploits in His Kingdom. You are learning the reality of warfare and God is molding you into an awesome warrior, if you will let him do this. I am a soldier by profession, and I can tell you that the greatest soldiers want the toughest training, they want to be tested so that they know what areas they need to get stronger in. While going through that tough training (such as Ranger school), they may ask themselves, “What have I gotten myself into?” They often temporarily regret subjecting themselves to the training. However, it’s all worth it in the end. I tell you the truth: God has crowns waiting for you in heaven, my friend, and it will all be worth it in the end.

About seven years ago, I was experiencing great discouragement because of constant bondage to sin. I read the word in Psalm 119 where it says “I have hidden your Word in my heart that I might not sin against You.” My desperation because of my seemingly hopeless situation caused me to start reading the Bible every day. Now, seven years later, I have a storehouse of wisdom inside of me that blesses other people. But this isn’t because I was especially spiritual or had lofty intentions; on the contrary, God redeemed my wretchedness and used my situation for good in my life and the lives of others. God has a purpose for all the things that we go through. Trust in Him with all your heart and you will have no regrets. And remember, THERE IS NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HALLELUJAH!!!
Antonio April 11th, 2008 11:53 am

Loved your comment New Wineskin!

God Bless…

Spirituality - Absolutes and Relativism

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