Apr 8
Truth, Fact, and Ego
I do not want to name names lest I fall into the same critical nature as those who malign many servants of God. However, I do want to address the philosophy of self appointed, online, protectors of the faith who, as one of you so aptly wrote, are at best “watchmen acting like Pharisee’s.” The woman in Song of Solomon who was with great passion chasing after her love experienced the same when it was penned, “The watchmen who went about the city found me. They struck me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took my veil away from me.” Song of Solomon 5:7
Far too many times I have seen those who were to guard our dwellings, strike the very ones they were to protect. I have witnessed harsh distortion of facts, mere theological differences labeled as heresies, and flat out lies repeated, and repeated, and repeated, time and time again until the lie becomes fact and truth lies buried in the street.
THE EGO OF MAN
I have observed ego-centric behavior from the religious critics who are more concerned with the sensational than the spiritual, who seldom if ever check to see if the facts are right, let alone search for the truth. Who, trying to raise their reputation or gain a following, use the Internet gossip columns as if they were the gospel and write whatever they find as if they had seen or experienced the moment themselves – not knowing the lies, distortions, and perversions they propagate. And because they are not judged immediately for this as being sin they think they get away with it.
THE JUSTICE OF GOD
In the end the Justice of God will be rendered to the innocent. Just because a decision is not rendered as soon as we think it should be is no sign the Judge has lost interest in the case. God is not mocked; whatever we sow we will reap. If we sow righteousness we will receive the same. And to those who sow lies, distortions, and divide the household of faith for their own gain … well, their fate will be settled by the Judge of Heaven and Earth. He alone will decide how to fulfill His Word. Rest assured – He will.
Perhaps the Psalmist stated it best when he wrote about those who find themselves in the position of the critic.
“You give your mouth to evil, and your tongue frames deceit. You sit and speak against your brother; you slander your own mother’s son. These things you have done, and I kept silent; you thought that I was altogether like you; but I will rebuke you, and set them in order before your eyes. “Now consider this, you who forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver: Whoever offers praise glorifies Me; and to him who orders his conversation aright I will show the salvation of God.” Psalms 50:19-23
May the Body of Christ become unified and overflowing with the Fruit of the Holy Spirit. That would take care of a lot of issues wouldn’t it?
Blessings,
John Paul
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They will know us by our love. Let’s keep our eyes fixed on Jesus and pray for those who persecute us. We all have the same enemy and he is cleary working to divide. If we all had the same Focus much less of this kind of thing could/would happen. It is so much easier to have compassion and offer mercy to those who are lost rather than those who “should know better”.
I do beleive the true body of Christ IS unified and overflowing in the spirit, the trouble is not so much the true church as it is the whoredom of Babylon, those who claim “Christ” but live merely in their own exalted religious state, of mind and opinion, rather that spirit and truth.
One thing I posted on a forum with the ‘heresy hunters’ and I will post it here, is that I Beleive people are many times obsessive with miracles and wonders. One side is obsessive that the majority of them is false, the otherside is obsessive in those that are true. Both sides are grossly in error.
The true reality is that Jesus CHrist has a body of lovers, of true beleiving people who live in the ways of God, the father, son and Spirit. Those ways are balanced and true. They don’t need to pursue and chase miracles, because the indwelling and abiding spirit in them, liberates the miracles everywhere they go!
Those that hunt out heresies in the name of religion, are simply acting as the ‘accuser of the brethren’ for they do not forgive and have mercy on others. Those who do not forgive others, shall not be forgiven by God, it says it in scriptures, and I find it sad that so many people condemn themselves by condemning others.
There is a fine line when discussions and disagreements turn into a slaughterhouse. Much of the claims against people being false prophets do not hold out by spirit because they are not based in spirit but in mind, thus in soul.
I remember hearing a story of Graham Cooke and How he said God had him minister, bless and love on these men that kept coming to his meetings to ‘find out what he said that was wrong’ and then they would report back to others what they saw. He said they would come over and over again and eventually they stopped coming because God told him to forgive them and bless them, interestingly enough, their ‘expose’ of him, actually drew MORE people to his ministry. That is what is true, that even when people act on the behalf of satanic spirits, God ‘works together all things for good to them that Love God and are called according to his purpose’ so even those accusations are used eventually for Good.
I am actually in some respects thankful for these brash folks, because without them I wouldn’t have found out some of the most wonderful prophetic voices I did, on my own. It was these heresy hunters, that easily led a path of exploration in spiritual life outside of what I knew… and it is these religious folks that remind me continually why the religious serpant is one that I want to stay out of, never getting complacent and lukewarm because I don’t ever want to rest in the belly of that snake
God bless
John Paul:
Yes of course, it seems like there is a lot of pain here. I am sensing that the heart of God through the Holy Spirit is grieving in this matter. I have to take this matter into prayer myself within the next couple of days to see and hear what else the Father is saying in all of this regarding the remedy for this atrocity.
All I can say and do is pray, pray, pray and pray again. I am not fit for debates of this nature at this time. I am speechless and have run out of words. What’s left is the pain in my heart which I feel is also the Lord’s pain regarding the matter at hand. The Lord wants us to live in peace and to guard our tongues.
He keeps telling me that time is short and we don’t have time for this foolishness like I have told my kids many of times when they were teenager’s, ” I haven’t got time for senseless arguments that pave the way to hell.”
Yes, you are right on John, God will judge with His justice. Just a quick note here on observing God’s justice operating in my life. My first job out of college some time ago in the late 1980’s, I
worked with high functioning mentally challenged adults. This job was fun because, I was able to take them to church on Sunday’s and get paid for it, I was also able to take my children to work in their pajama’s until one day, the house manager who was an atheist did not want me working their for his own reasons…and so he said a few choice words to me in anger, he put down my christian faith especially when he found out that I had been taken the clients to church. Anyway, he also told me I was stupid and that I wasn’t fit to enter into a Master’s Degree program because people from my cultural background had inferior intelligence and then he fired me…..A year later, I get accepted into a Graduate degree program at a prestigious teachers college working in admissions as well and when it came time for Graduation I was the one that handed my ex-boss his Master’s Degree and he looked me straight in the eye and asked me what I was doing there and I just simply said….I am a student in the program and then I congratulated him on his achievement. I knew right there that was God’s Justice in full operation.
I believe that the time of vindication for God’s people in this area of reaping what was sown in this area is about to come around full circle in this season of “New Beginnings”.
I am not foreign to witnessing this kind of treatment. I grew up with this in my family of origin and find it wearisome experiencing this degree of grief.
This is were I have lived during the first part of my life always being misunderstood and the brunt of people’s lies and manipulations, however I have learned to turn it off over the years and give it over to God and not give in to the enemies schemes to make me go insane.
If we knew who we were in Christ Jesus, all of this should roll off of our backs.
I don’t want to allow the devil to rent space in my head and I don’t think the Lord wants anyone else here on this blog to allow the devil to rent space in their heads either.
I have been reading in a very powerful book called
“Strength To Love” by Dr. Martin Luther King that there are two kind of believer’s in the Body of Christ, the soft minded ones and the tough minded ones.
The difference being the way in which each person relates to others in their environment.
“Softmindedness is found in man’s unbelievable gullibilty; tough mindedness is characterized by incisive thinking, realistic appraisal, and decisive judgments. The tough mind is sharp and penetrating, breaking through the crust of legends and myths and sifting the true from the false, the phony from the real. The tough-minded individual is astute and discerning. He or she is strong, austere quality that makes for firmness of purpose and solidness of commitment.” Oh, that we would all receive this God given inheritance in this time of darkness.
There is an old Irish saying, “Don’t find trouble until trouble finds you, you will only trouble yourself and trouble other’s too…so don’t find trouble……flee from it….
Peace & Blessings Always!
Shirley C.
Fear seams to be a major driving force behind alot of attacks that are directed against many new leaders in the body of Christ as well as non leaders. A good friend, a well known theologian. Had pastors telling their churchs to pray that he would die. When he tried to talk about why they were attacking him they refused his calls.
The harm that we as christians do to each other is horrible. The enemy seems to at times have us destroying each other instead of coming against the darkness that Christ warned us about. It is sad that when you are a child and grow up hearing that if you follow Jesus you will be persicuted, you think that it will be non beleivers, but so far I have been attacked by fellow christians far more than non beleivers. And it has really picked up since becoming involved with the prophetic and dream interp, and charismatic. It is a real eye opener.
“May the Body of Christ become unified and overflowing with the Fruit of the Holy Spirit. That would take care of a lot of issues wouldn’t it?”
That is would John Paul, that indeed it would - Oh God make it so.
Z
I understand the case against false accusations, condemnations, and gossip. I understand the case for all things to be done in love. When there are extreme cases it can be understandable for some to rise up and condemn slander, however, the broader issue of concern to me, is how we find the path of being able to speak the truth in love (which may include the correction of that which is in error, unrighteous or unholy), without usurping God’s role as judge and the source of justice, mercy and grace.
The church in north America has its share of “evangelastic” claims of miracles, erroneous prosperity teachings, cessationists, and its share of people who seem unrestrained in their claims to speak for the Lord or from His throne room, with an implicit presumption of infallibility not reflective of their track record or fruit. I have heard very few retractions or apologies from persons who have “prophetically” misspoken. While the body needs to curtail its taste for gossip, and criticism, so too must those persons on the platforms in front of the body need to learn how to self correct and repent when they are in error.
We need a new way of addressing our differences without the abuse of silencing all discerning observations and discourse with the declaration “how dare you touch (or question) the head of God’s anointed” which leads us into a form of protestant papacy that usurps the Lordship of Jesus in the church and the infallibility of scripture, OR the doctrine that says that any and all differences or criticisms among Christians are not the expression of “love” and therefore wrong, thereby leading us into moral and theological relativism that ultimately overtakes the absolutes of God.
Some times the best way to handle criticism, is to ignore it. However, sometimes we can learn more about our own weakneses and our blind spots from our enemies/critics, than we can learn from well meaning “love covering” friends.
Unity is such an issue, especially in these days of globalness…I beleive that one of the secrets of the power of these days spoken of by the prophets, abides in the “success” of a united Body…
I pray God heal and tenderly tend to the peircing pains of His prophets. That He kindly and gently heal the wounds of His body. That He be a strong tower and mighty warrior, against the strategies and insurgencies of the enemy. That He purify the poluted streams and unite them in a pure strong river…
Until the cup overflows…even though I weap and sorrow, in God remains my salvation…
Blessings…
(paraphrased)
Hey Jesus, we saw someone casting out demons in Your Name, and we told him to stop (forbade, prevent, hinder, keep from) because he wasn’t part of our company. (congregation, follower)
Do not forbid him was the response they got.
God Bless
David
Something encouraging (a propos to this posting):
The following was posted at your website early in the year (we have been holding on to it and are personally seeing a turnaround in a “Daniel in the Lion’s Den” situation here– thank you, Lord!):
My Father in Heaven:
• I will bear Your light to change the world.
• I am the light of the world, because the Light of the World dwells in me.
• Your Kingdom will come; Your will shall be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.
• No one will meet me and not be changed, because no one can meet You and not be changed.
• I will become increasingly aware of the Light that I carry.
• I will grow in You and grow in this Light.
• I will become a change agent in this world.
• I will believe the unbelievable; what is not yet I will become.
• I will come to understand where I am in You, and I see my future more clearly than ever before.
• The gifts You have given me will begin to flourish as I understand Your ways.
• Nothing will prosper that comes against me, because I will live a repentant life before You; because I live a repentant life, You will answer my prayer.
(***NOTHING WILL PROSPER THAT COMES AGAINST ME***)
• I will become what You have called me to become.
• I have been placed here for such a time as this.
• I live where I live because You placed me here.
• I am not here by accident; I am here by divine appointment.
• My neighbors will prosper because of You in me.
• Those I touch will prosper because of You in me.
• Everyone I pray for will be touched, because You flow through me; it makes no difference if others recognize the touch or not – You will touch them.
• You will touch others more some times than at other times; I will not judge my relationship with You based on what they feel.
• I relate to You because of who You are in me, not because of others, not because of my emotions, not because I feel saved, not because I’ve ascended to greatness through my intellect – but because of what You have done in me.
• I am re-procreated, regenerated and born anew.
• Your seed has entered me.
• My spirit is alive and quickened.
• I will become quickened to You, fine-tuned to Your Spirit, not doing what You’re not doing and doing what You are doing.
• I will become a witness for You.
• With Your help, when people see me, they will see You.
• Soon, there will be a clear distinction between those who don’t know God and me, because I know You.
• People will see me and they will know that I am a follower of Jesus and a bearer of His light.
• For Your glory this will happen, taking the foolish things to confound the wise.
• Thank You for finding me and choosing me to be a change agent on this earth for Your glory. In Jesus’ name, amen.
http://www.streamsministries.com/index.php?cat_id=27&page_id=114#74
The Lord revealed to me that you can discern the counterfeit by the seeds of disunity within it.
Being “right” isnt the issue. Just because I think I know how the building was contructed dosent mean that I know the builder.
Unity facilitates the move of God, is the test within it - when we strain over jots and tittels, we try and take control - control is the motivation behind the counterfeit. The movements of God are beyond our control and unity is the reality for the one foundation - which is Christ. Everything else is our own kingdom, our own tower of babble.
We will be in process … UNTILL EVERY JOINT SUPPLIES.
An Indian (Native American) Prayer:
O’Great Spirit
Whose voice i hear in the winds;
and whose breath gives life to all the world,
hear me! I am small and weak, I need your strength and wisdom.
Let me walk in beauty, and make my eyes ever behold the red and purple sunset.
Make my hands respect the things you have made and my ears sharp to hear your voice.
Make me wise so that I may understand the things you have taught my people.
Let me learn the lessons you have hidden in every leaf and rock.
I seek strength, not to be greater than my brother or sister, but to fight my greatest enemy, myself.
Make me always ready to come to you with clean hands and straight eyes.
So when life fades, as the fading sunset, my spirit may come to you without shame………….Excerpts from Footsteps to Wisdom
Peace, Unity & Happiness
Shirley C.
Interestingly enough, as I was growing up and searching for Jesus, my girlfriend and I went to church after church to “find” Him, but all my relatives, etc. warned us not to go to this one particular church, which we didn’t, of course. As I look back on it, I realize now that we should have gone to that church, as the other churches were very religious and didn’t talk about Jesus.
Because of that experience, whenever someone tells me to not have anything to do with a particular ministry/minister, etc., I will make a bee-line to them and check it out myself. I have normally found that there is nothing wrong with what they are doing or teaching…only that it is different from what others think they should do. Cookie-Cutter Christianity…why did the Lord make all of us with different personalities then? We can still adhere to the main tenants of our faith, but still allow each other to be who God created them to be.
Blessings!!!!
John Paul:
I thought that you might like to view this link. This confirms your original concern regarding Oprah Winfrey’s position on Jesus. She was confronted by christian women in her audience:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pwGLNbiw1gk
Shirley C.
Wow, some neat things are starting to happen in my life. How exciting…things are coming together.
The light came on for me concerning the verse: “The watchmen who went about the city found me. They struck me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took my veil away from me.” Song of Solomon 5:7. I had just been thinking about this verse a couple of days ago!! I wondered what the watchmen were all about. Why would the beat her and take her veil?
It comes together for me now. The watchmen were doing their job. I don’t know whether there was a curfew in the city but it was what my thought was at first glance. Now, I see it is possible they were to watch out for intruders from within or from outside the city. It doesn’t matter exactly what their mission was. The bottom line was that they were harming their own people.
I believe it was even possible for these watchmen to think evil of the beloved. Perhaps they thought she was a prostitute. Maybe their orders were to beat anyone out at a certain time of night. I don’t know. I just see their impression of the beloved was incorrect. They either thought she was breaking the law, was not worthy of being treated properly, or was a threat to the city. It was fact she was out late at night. Did they investigate and search out the truth? Maybe they didn’t even care about the truth.
I think two things could be going on with the watchmen when they beat her: 1. They could be malicious and desire to harm their own people. 2. They could have made an incorrect assessment about the facts before them.
Which one applies to Christian watchmen tearing down ministries and ministers?
(…about my kiddo Robert…my child is the same…hospital trips are routine…not in any threat or danger but will have no life apart from healing from God…speaking of truth and fact, the fact is, my child is incapable of being a part of this world at this time…the truth is, God desires healing…WOW what a revelation! Fact and truth are NOT the same!)
Its so sad really. I have been mistreated in church. At first I was really angry, then hurt, then hurt and then angry but mostly I’m sad. What I tried to do in innocence was looked upon as ugly and out of order. It made me feel wrong. I don’t think I should say anything against anyone. I am just moving on. There is a hunger to know and be more in Christ and I will not let small minded men (includes women) stand in my way. The Bible says to church leadership, you won’t enter in and you won’t allow others to enter in (Mal). That is true but I still have hope even for those who are blind because they will not see.
I have given you a new heart a heart of flesh not stone Yeshua warned us about hearts growing cold please Holy Spirit keep our hearts hot for you and for your love and each other bless those who curse you yes Father bless them with salvation healing and freedom to love as you love forgive as I have forgiven you we say yes LORD yes LORD yes yes yes LORD SHALOM
I am not the paragon of virtue, I am not the judge of the earth and I don’t pretend to know where the hearts of those who slander God’s people are at. However, I fear for those who do that, that they will suffer great loss.
It’s not my call, but I think of Ananias and Saphira. I wonder that when the power of God becomes stronger and stronger, what will happen to some of these? Will they become Paul the Apostle, whose supposed love of truth led him to be involved in murdering Christians, and when redeemed, whose love of truth was purified and preserved for us to lead us in righteousness? Or will they be a Judas and finish the job of destroying themselves, because that is the tack they are on? Psalms says “whoever of you loves life and desires to see many days, let him keep his lips from evil and his tongue from speaking deceit.” The converse is true, we will shorten our days if we continue on the opposite path.
I believe this is not a neutral issue to God. He is not One who does not feel - He is touched by the feeling of our infirmity. He said whatever we do to another, we do to Him. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of THE living God.
Two other verses come to mind: a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household, and blessed are you when you are persecuted, for the Spirit of God and of glory rests on you. Maybe this is needed to advance to a higher level in the Spirit. JP, you were on a show a few years ago with a well-known man of God who has been slandered, and he said he felt the Lord had shown him that what was happening to him would take him to a greater level of power and authority (paraphrased).
Finally, to me what’s really impressive in this is how many of those slandered respond, with the Spirit and character of Christ. Mike Bickle wrote in the forward to one of his books a dedication to Paul Cain, who was one who blessed those who cursed him and prayed for those who were mistreating him, as Jesus did.
Blessings!
Dennis P
“You will know them by their fruit . . .” NOT GIFTS (miracles, prophecy, healing, etc), but by their FRUIT (love, joy, peace, etc) . . . GIFTS ARE NOT FRUIT, gifts are not fruit!, only fruit is fruit . . .
“Just because a decision is not rendered as soon as we think it should be is no sign the Judge has lost interest in the case.”
That strikes a very deep chord with me at the moment. God has an agenda and we are on it. Nothing will be left unresolved, no stone unturned as he works through it.
Help us to stick to God’s agenda.
One of those, thanks for the update on your child. I am blessed that you are willing to share in the midst of your pain. I love and am praying for both of you. I can’t wait for your baby’s healing to manifest. I can’t help but to believe that it will. Until it comes, I will continue to see it in my mind’s eye.
The enemy must laugh at us as we tear each other to pieces. But you are right. God sees, He knows, and He will not let the guilty go unpunished.
So many wounded soldiers, so much friendly fire . . .
–r
http://www.renaebrumbaugh.com
Hello John Paul I am very sorry at times to see some of the things on the NET about religion with no proof, I wonder where they get the stuff. Maybe I am too critical. I look at my life and think maybe I fit these two scripture more than I think I do. Matt24:12 and Luke18:8 . It is scarry to see ones self in scripture. HUGS to John Paul
Well, for what it’s worth: We know God puts us thru many tests and I once heard a pastor say that God may be testing us to see if we are going to go for man’s acceptance vs. God’s acceptance. That’s a tough one: I went thru it myself a few years ago and it was NO FUN !!! Especially when it’s coming from close family/church family. Yet, I do not want to develop a “persecution mentality” either. Now that’s a scary thought !!!
hahahahaha. I love Ann’s comment. it reminds me of this long running joke i have… where I was in a parking garage talking of just such a pheomenon..
and I shouted.. “I am a fruit!!!” of course, my friends thought i had gone mad, but i got drunk on the joy that I was a living fruit that is from the tree of life..in christ
so .. i love being a fruit. how about you?
God called us to love. If we’re not loving, then we’re missing our calling.
“Mat 5:12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”
In Matthew 5 Jesus talks about persecution. However, I had never noticed until now that he relates the type of persecution going on to what the prophets experienced in former days. To me, that indicates that there was persecution from within the camp. There is always so much focus on persecution from outside the church. This revelation really changes my perspective.
This blog entry has also made me consider how much I care about what the critics think. I have read some apologetics for and against revival/renewal many years ago when I sought the truth. Even though I have ironed out what I believe I realize now I’ve been constrained by my concern for what the critics may think or write. That is not freedom. I don’t think we are able to move into all that God wants for us when we are adapting our behavior to fit within a range that prevents us from critics’ attacks. I need to work on this.
(Nina, thanks for the support. It is so much easier to go through this with people who care. It was unbearable before I had people come along side me.)
Amen, John Paul.
“may the body of Christ become unified and overflowing with the fruit of the Holy Spirit,” ….Amen!!
That sure would take care of a lot of problems.
God Speed!!
I like you too, Will–love your edge . . . your cutting edge! Your wonderful fruit! (It’s late, I’m punchy) Sorry, JP, don’t mean to be irreverent; it’s just time for a laugh! FRUIT, FRUIT!!!
I heard Bob Fitts once say that his Father said to pay no attention to excessive praise or low blow comments and criticisms. If you go into the lobby of the Chicago Tribune, you can read the writing etched on the walls where the roots of anti- govt journalism are listed. In the name of justice it looks like a rage against established authority.
An audience is powerful. If one is ego-driven, to have an audience is really powerful. Giving something an audience can feed it, withdrawing one’s audience can starve it. Whom or what you give your audience to is truly powerful. Some things just need to be starved! Withdraw one’s audience from negative energy, and give to LIFE and LOVE and TRUE BEAUTY–our wonderful GOD! Give to One who is worthy: our audience, our worship, our passion, and our portion!
Ann,
haha cutting edge? is that like getting a slice of fruit? ha. ha. ohh no.. soo good.
actually the fruit totally applies to this blog as some are eating from the tree of ‘good and evil’ and since they bite into that fruit they end up getting worms, and those worms are the poisonous spirits that fall under the accuser of the brethren..which could be the facts..
but then, there are those that eat of fruit from the tree of life. and that is good news.
I like the fruit in john pauls networks of people.. its good fruit.. of a rare pollination.. you know.. its like …. imported with care from the islands of light.. mmmm. taste and see that the Lord God shining through all his beloved.. well he is just soo goood.
YUMMY!
Like many here, I’ve experienced on a local scale the wounds inflicted by the well-meaning “keepers of the law.” All I did to earn judgment was leave a mega church that was moving toward a seeker sensitive model and help to plant a church that believed in, and earnestly pursued the manifest presence of God. Oh, we wanted the gifts of the Spirit too, of course, but what we truly wanted, and want today, was for God to show up an take over the day. After reading Tommy Tenney’s book, God Chasers I was ruined for “regular” church.
JP, your book Needless Casualties of War could just as easily have been about the Church’s talent for killing our own soldiers.
I have not been able to shake something that you said.
“The woman in Song of Solomon who was with great passion chasing after her love experienced the same when it was penned, “The watchmen who went about the city found me. They struck me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took my veil away from me.” Song of Solomon 5:7″
I realize that I have been frozen at my keyboard because I feared saying what I thought, lest I be labeled a “heresy hunter” or nit picker in what was otherwise a great blog by you. But I must not let my fear prevent me from engaging in discourse hoping that you will not receive it as criticism, but as fair comment.
I agree with what you wrote in your blog except for this use of SS 5:7. I do not want to diminish the jist of what you wrote or its importance, but there were 2 incidents in the Song of Solomon involving watchmen. In Chapter 3 the woman was out seeking for her lover (Jesus) and she found no harm from the watchmen as she fond by him. In chapter 5 the woman languished in her bed, inattentive and inconvenienced, while her lover knocked at her door, that was locked, preventing his entry….and after the woman finally got up, she discovered her lover did not wait and was gone…. and as she ran into the streets she found harm at the hands of the watchmen. I suggest that these 2 scenarios are significant metaphors.
I do not believe that SS 5:7 in any way justifies the evil perpetrated by some today in the guise of “watchmen and heresy hunters”. However, the distinction would suggest that verse 7 in chapter 5 may not be the best support for the valid point you make thru out the rest of your blog….and that SS 5:7 may in fact be a warning to us all if we are not attentive, prepared and seeking after our lover Jesus.
I was forwarded some out takes from various Ophrah Winfrey shows where she talks about God and religion. In one, she talked about attending a church and was really into the spritual flow until she heard that God was a jealous God. She said she thought to herself, God..jealous of me?!! He’s too big for that. She said from that point on she has sought something ‘more’. She missed the love in that statement but it seemed she was also saying in essence that man and religion make God to small.
I get weekly updates from her internet class and have a feel for what is being said. What she is doing is like an indictment against the church. There is so much honest feeling and concern in her sessions. I have not seen such generosity in most churches. However the greatest love of all resides in us! How do they beat us at our own game? I have seen it in John Paul’s efforts to help us touch and see the ‘more’ in his classes but over all I’ve seen so little spiritual generosity in the church.
These last few blogs are an indictment against the church as well…too much in-fighting and not enough glory. I cannot read the hearts of men. Look at Paul, he was a killer of the church and turned out to be its biggest sower. I am a true believer in the ’show me the money’ philosophy. I want to talk less and do more. I have not responded to my critics yet. I hope to do so with few words, lots of love and little action on my part. I want to be able to say Father, send down your Glory and let God do the talking. My hope for the church is that we will demonstrate the far greater as Jesus promised we would. We have to stop trying to compete with the world on their level and beat them with what God has given us; greater love and power.
I have also seen some Oprah videos on Youtube, as they crossed my path. To tell you the truth, I think the offense that was taken, against something that in it’s essence, is love, is totally out of proportion…
Who isn’t jealous of their dearest? Who doesn’t feel pain when they see their love flirting with someone that isn’t us? To go so far, on so little, to me, isn’t much of a reason for such crusades…I beleive there may be deeper issues…
If they are truly looking for God (Oprahrians), I beleive they will find Him. But then again, what will happen when they find out, once more, that God is a jealous God as she has said? Will they want to know the truth about that facet of Him? Or will they get upset and lift up another crusade because of their offense? How many Oprahs would we then have?
Each person has the choice to do what they will, with what they have been given. May we be able to shine Him forth in a way that will help people make the right choices…May we be the exact exibit of who He is!
I’m glad God is a jealous God. Would He have sent Jesus if He wasn’t?
God Bless!
Watch Dog Web sites
My husband, and I have just been through our previous pastor in our small church getting information from a watch dog (as I like to call them) web site that was criticizing some very well known men of God, and broadcasting it to our church.
I didn’t feel right about what was said so ask where he got his information, and then proceeded to check it out.
I have never read such garbage, and attacks, and I do mean attacks on the body of Christ just because these men didn’t believe the way the people on web site do.
Because I didn’t know some of the men they were attacking I even went further by ordering some of there books.
I don’t agree with everything they teach, but they are men of God, and head over heals in love with God so I knew for sure everything this web site was saying about them was wrong.
I shared what I had found out with our pastor, and the previous pastor who still goes to our church, the one who shared these lies.
Our pastor spoke to some of the people in private who had purchased the tapes, and corrected the lie, but as of yet it has never been corrected from the pulpit.
Also after sharing with the previous paster that what he had shared was not right, he typed the message up, and handed it out in our church to who ever wanted a copy.
It was a hard decision, but along with other things that have happened over the years that these 2 men have been our pastors, we have lost respect for them so as of about a week ago we are no longer going to there church.
Betty /
The GREATEST prejudice in America’s media ministries is the prejudice against self-incriminating truth. Its leaders will pull every scripture possible to avoid self-critique. Yet Jesus said to agree with your enemy. Jesus loved truth that much. Agree with your enemy who brings you truth. America’s media ministries are steeped in pride, ego, self-exaltation and extraction of billions of dollars…to promote more pride, ego, self-exaltation and extraction of billions of dollars…to occupy the mind space of donors. They succeed in their mind space competition among us and drive out higher truths, humbling truths and especially any self-incriminating truths. Against such truths, American media ministry leaders have profound prejudice. In truth, their pabulum is proof that such leaders have not succeeded in overcoming basic Adamic behaivor. Otherwise, they would seek self-correction rather than obfuscation,reality deception projection and funding.
Who has overcome basic Adamic behavior? I think we are all guilty. Not everyone lives a life in front on large amounts of people. Those who do have an open life to the public are much more suseptable to critique. I also do not believe in agreeing with the enemy. If my enemy (in this case those who are claiming I have incorrect theology) tells me that God does not speak today in any way other than His word I would not agree. And, I feel I can support my position Biblically. It would be the same if another Christian told me it was wrong to think God would heal my child! I believe I can support by belief with good Biblical support. However, my ‘enemy’ will also support their position Biblically.
Truth is often defined by perspective. If I wear rose tinted glasses, a white shirt apears to be rose colored. If someone else is wearing green tinted glasses that shirt will be tinted green.
In my opinion, the solution to the differences in perceived truth among Christians (notice I did not say ‘among non-Christians’) is to learn to work together towards a common Biblical goal. What is our purpose? Somebody help me, but did Jesus ever send out disciples to find problems with theology and tear those people down publicly? What did he send out disciples for?
Think of the American military structure. Take any branch of the service. They have a mission statement. Each unit within the military has a different mission that SUPPORTS the overarching mission. There are no units who have a mission statement to publicly criticize another unit’s efforts. There are, however, differences in approach to accomplish the mission. The Army does not always agree with the Air Force. The Air Force does not always agree with the Navy…etc. At the end of the day, they have to learn to work together to accomplish the President’s orders.
Maybe I’m over simplifying the problem. However, I think we can ask ourselves before acting whether or not our choice will cause unity or division TOWARDS our common goal. I once had a professor who said we could write a paper claiming any belief we wanted to as long as we were able to support and defend our position (properly and logically - good Biblical interpretation) with Scripture. If at the end of the day the difference is still not ironed out then we just need to learn to work together or along side each other towards our common goal.
Sorry to go on about it…the unity in the body of Christ is really important to me. It is so important to healthy functioning that our own immune system not destroy the body it intended to protect.
Yes i know the Father knows my name HE gets the Glory if you need a healing log on to Freshfire.ca and read what the Father is doing in lakeland Fla and all over whosoever will receive HIS healing Touch now SHALOM